Celebrate an Undiplomatic Juneteenth with Deesha Dyer

Q&A with Deesha Dyer

• Once you were in the White House and you’re showing up every day, did you experience imposter syndrome? And if so, how did you really sort of navigate that? And navigate it to the point where you were able to reflect by writing a full-length manuscript, and then what’s the process to skew over to an author? 
• That’s a great question. And so I definitely experienced imposter syndrome going to the White House. I think that imposter syndrome, for those of you who may not know, it’s when you feel that you are not qualified, that you’ve got lucky, instead of earning something, and it kind of permeates your whole aura of being, like if you get a promotion or something or you get a scholarship, you kind of downplay it like, “Well, I don’t know why I got it. I don’t understand why.” So I definitely felt that going to the White House, as someone who did not have a college degree and everyone else did, you know, and I also was 31 years old while everyone else, like at intern age, is like 19 to 21, you know? So I definitely felt like I didn’t belong, like I wasn’t smart enough to be there.
  
  But then I talked to the other interns who were not my age, but they were feeling the same thing, you know, They were just like, “We don’t even know how we got here either.” So I think that it’s this thing where once I started talking to people, it was really something normal for all of us because we were in the White House and we were like, “We can’t believe we got here out of all these people.” I think that once I got hired, it just continued that feeling of like, “Are they sure that they want me here?” And like, you know, if I make one mistake, which we all make, mistakes are going to happen, right? I was like, “This means I’m stupid. I don’t deserve this job.” And so I had to really learn how to curb that as I started climbing the ladder at the White House and started being like, “Not only at this point, do you keep getting promoted, right? But like, you’re doing a good job and you like what you do and no one’s calling you out for anything. So maybe you are qualified and maybe you do belong here.” So I think that that’s when I started really believing in myself. I say around 2015, after I was there for six years and I started talking about imposter syndrome, using my story.
  
  And people just loved it. They were just like, you kind of put lessons inside of these fun stories about the Obamas. And so that’s when I thought, I’m going to turn it into a book, because after I’m done speaking with people, I’m like, “There’s so much more to say or there’s so much more to the story, and we only have 45 minutes.” And so that’s why I turned it into the story. And it was hard putting the manuscript together. For those who don’t know, a manuscript is kind of your first writing of your book, your manuscript turns into the final product of the book. Because I knew people would be critical of it because that’s what editors are supposed to do to make it better. But I was thinking, I don’t know how good I can take feedback because, you know, I take it so hard that I’m just not good. But I had to in order to make a better book, I had to put it out there. And so that was the process for me, is just like handing it in and closing my eyes and kind of like talking on some of those affirmations that we all spoke about earlier, being like, “It’s going to be all right, just going to go for it. And maybe when people give me feedback, it’s not critique on my character or my smarts or anything else. They’re making my writing better and they’re making my book better, so readers will relate to it.” So I had to adopt that philosophy, but it was very hard, my journey to do that, very hard. 
• How was your experience as a Black woman in the White House, aside from the experience you just described, which thanks for sharing that with us?
• That’s a great question. Thank you so much for asking that. And so what I’ll say is, is that, you know, having a Black president and First Lady was great. I mean, like, it was amazing. I don’t think I would have been there if it was probably any other president. Right. But I would say that Washington, the Washington social scene and the Washington political scene is not Black and while there is a Black component to it, obviously, I’m working at the highest office and so people are not all Black, but the president and First Lady are.
  
  So I think that it was hard for me if I’m keeping it 100, because you know, I kept my nose ring in, I’m not wearing hoops right now, but I usually have hoops. And I had my braids, my Poetic Justice braids or whatever. I didn’t have a relaxer. So I think that there were all these things that were like respectability politics that I had to play. And it was very, very, very, very hard because it was kind of like, “Who’s this girl from Philly that got this job?” Like, you know, when there’s so-and-so over here that could have got that job? And I’m like, “Yeah, but the president and First Lady didn’t choose them.” So I would say that was very hard on me. I was very lucky that I found a group of other Black folks at the White House and we just kind of stuck together and lifted each other up.
  
  But I don’t think I would have gotten through it without them because no matter what people say, like, especially when it comes to race, I think people are very excited about power. So they want to be close to the Obamas because of their power, their charisma, there are all these things. But I’m not the Obamas, so they may want to treat me a little bit differently, you know? So I have had to flex a few times and be like, “Nah, I’m not over here, B.” But like it, you know, it was tough. But I think that finding the group of allies and community folks that could really be there for me was a key with everything. 
• Since the Obama presidency, a lot of events have happened, like the rollback of Roe v. Wade, ending of affirmative action, the latest rebuke by the Supreme Court for gerrymandering. It feels like we’re regressing instead of grasping boldly for the optimistic, multicultural America. What’s your view on this?
• That’s a heavy question, but that’s a really great question. I think that’s something appropriate probably, you know, on this Juneteenth holiday as we look at civil rights and, you know, Black rights and everything else. I think that my opinion on it is one that I will say that, and I’m going to say this very boldly, that the Obamas, it was an amazing time and it was a great time. But I think a lot of people thought because, you know, they were Black, because they were progressive, because they were Democrats, that that was moving us way forward. And understand that really angered a lot of people, so once they got out, they were ready to roll everything back. Our country was founded on slavery. And so, our Constitution, everything else, you know, was written without Black people or the rights of women and other things. And so we have to sometimes remember that when we’re trying to fight these things because it is built into the fabric of this nation.
  
  But what I think is that if we continue to fight and not just on a national level, because there are more elections in the presidential, there’s your state senators, city board, there’s your school boards, you have to remember that some of these things that you’re naming definitely are big, especially Roe v. Wade and affirmative action, the gerrymandering that affects voting. But a lot of stuff is happening on a local and civil level that we’re not paying attention to. That is just the roots of all these things that you put in the chat. And so my view is that it makes me angry. It makes me upset for the future, for the young people. You know, I was very thankful that I grew up in a time that, you know, Roe v. Wade was the law of the land. And so, you know, if you want to get an abortion, you could go do that. And now to know that, you know, women or people that give birth may be, you know, criminalized for that is disgusting.
  
  So what I say is that, like, we have to keep fighting not just for these things that you mentioned, but also for our joy and for ourselves. And like, you know, just like the writing exercises that we did tonight. And some of you said, “When I read it out loud, it gave me a boost.” Like, we have to remember how wonderful we are aside from some of these things that people are doing or saying, which is why gatherings like this and being involved in Girls Write Now and other things are so important for us to gather and have that joy. So I think that we keep fighting, we fight on all levels. But then also we don’t give our all to the fights. There’s stuff left for us to be joyful, to be carefree, to be in community, to just do fun things that don’t get bogged down. But it’s sad and it makes me upset. But I refuse to give up because I don’t want to say that I didn’t do all that I could do. But also sometimes the fight is just us walking around Black and happy, you know, and that’s it, that’s what you going to get today, Black and happy, and that’s enough. 
• So I read your bio when I introduced you as a guest author. And there’s so much that you’ve accomplished and that you continue to do. And so I guess my question is twofold: Do you still experience imposter syndrome, even though you’re doing great? And then also how do you make time for yourself and for that Black joy, even while doing all of these things you’re doing the community and all that?
• I definitely still experience imposter syndrome here and there. I think it’s not realistic to say you’re just going to overcome it. I think that, you know, for me, imposter syndrome is baked into the fabric of who I was as a young Black girl that was always expressing her opinion and loud and like, you know, had a nose and lips and all these other things that weren’t acceptable. And you have to remember, I’m 46. So back in my day, we didn’t have all these, “Stand up and speak your mind!” It was like, “You’re talking out of turn,” and “Be quiet,” and “You’re so loud.” So I grew up thinking— and I also didn’t grow up with my parents— And so I grew up thinking I was an inconvenience and who I was was wrong. From when I was nine, when my parents gave me up to, you know, for a very long time. And so throughout that process of imposter syndrome and affirmations of just, like, systemic racism and sexism was all feeding all of that.
  
  So I had to literally, when I was about 40 years old, go to therapy, dig up these roots of why I feel so inferior all the time, although I’m like the right hand to the president and stuff, which is ridiculous but I’m just like, “No, I don’t know if I should be here,” but like, I’m sitting in the Oval Office being like, I don’t know if I should be here. So I had to really realize that my accomplishments are not substitutions for making me feel good for who I am. They are a complement to the natural characteristics of who I am, my work ethic, my beauty, my Blackness, my everything. They are a complement. So whether I went to the White House or not, I’m still dope, right? But I was looking at it like I have to keep achieving so people keep thinking I’m so smart, I’m so accomplished, I’m so connected, and so I still get imposter syndrome creeps up here and there, but now it creeps up.
  
  It’s like a guest that comes at you, like, “It’s time for you to go home. Like you got to go.” You know what I mean? Like, “You don’t have a bedroom here no more. There is no place in my body for you anymore,” versus before I’d be like, “Come have a seat, have a drink. We’re best friends.” You got to go. And I realize that a lot of my imposter syndrome was really just me trying new things. And so we need to remember that. Like, if you’ve never done something before, like written a book, you know, I’m going to be scared. Like, what am I doing? Like, I’m scared. And that’s okay to have those natural, scary feelings, but I’m not going to let it stop me and put myself down from writing. I manage it now. It still comes and goes. But to say, I don’t want to say overcome, because I want to be realistic that you can manage it.
  
  Overcoming is hard as long as you keep growing and keep your curiosity going. But it feels good to be on the other side of not being addicted to validation, to make myself feel better. But it’s constants— constant therapy, constant community and you know, all the things that I do, you know, I make sure that I make time for my black joy, right. I’m not afraid to step away from the stuff and say, “This is not for me anymore. It’s taking away from my joy,” and just not feeling bad about that, so I think often, especially for Black women and for women in general, we feel bad when we neglect the cause or something to take care of ourselves. Like no, like no. I no longer feel bad.