Become an Expert in the Art of Interviewing with Abby West and Rebecca Carroll

Prompt #1: Finding the Form

Write down the differences and/or similarities between an interview and a conversation. What makes them different? What makes them the same?

Prompt #2: Putting it to Practice

Think of someone you know well. How would you go about helping them shape their narrative through the questions you ask, while still leaving room to elicit something new? Write down the person, the questions you would ask them, and why.

Bonus! Try your hand at interviewing this person. Does the interview follow the format you had planned, or do new routes of conversation emerge?

Q&A with Abby West and Rebecca Carroll

What would you say are the driving criteria for a podcast? What must you have in place in terms of core inquiry and hook in order to get started?

REBECCA CARROLL: I wanna say that, if you don’t mind my starting, Abby, that what was hard for me to wrap my head around when I first started in this medium is that all you have are people’s ears. That’s it, that’s all you have. And so think about creating an audio stimulus that gives you the same experience as a film, or a book, or a travel adventure, or whatever it may be in other, sort of sensory tactile forms, and create that in audio. And that is really challenging but super fun, and it’s also bringing it back to the origin of this event. Oral storytelling is something that is quite germane to Black folks and Black history; we weren’t able to read, we weren’t able to write, our language and our communication was really sacred. I think that listening back over to, you know, for example, Angela Davis, some of her interviews that she’s done, and the way that she articulates her voice, and the way that she is able to give you a picture with the absolute tenor of her voice. I mean, I think that’s what you look for when you’re trying to do a hook. It’s like, “How do I create an all-sensory experience just through the ear?”

ABBY WEST: That’s a great answer. That’s just a fantastic answer. My answer would be, since I’ve learned from some of the wonderful producers and editors around the world who have come from various backgrounds and done wonderful things, what are you trying to say? What is the essential question that you’re looking to answer? What’s that narrative arc that goes beyond two people talking? We just said that two people talking can be a great interview, but if you’re doing a podcast, why does someone want to show up for five, ten episodes?

CARROLL: Yeah. It should also be said, and I’m sure everyone will have a different response to this, but the field, the industry, is oversaturated. I mean, it really is, and, you know, there are a kajillion million plus seven hundred times seventy-five podcasts right now. But it’s also to your best interest to listen to as many as you can to see the ones that you think resonate and that work and that don’t, because there are lots that don’t, and there are ones that stand out. You know, I always point people to The Read. What makes it work is this bone-deep friendship between these two people that you can actually hear. You can hear that in the way that they talk to each other, in a way that’s different than any interview or conversational thing. Listen to things, think about what you want to hear, what you don’t want to hear, definitely. And then make it really short and sweet in terms of a pitch and a hook. 

WEST: And don’t try to be someone else. The Read works best with who they are.

CARROLL: And they really, truly don’t care if you’re listening. And I’m not saying that that’s a good thing, I’m saying that what it is, it creates an intimacy that you wouldn’t hear otherwise. I don’t know that anyone could do it like that, because now podcasts are almost 99% scripted. But I will forever point to them as one of the richest audio podcast experiences. 

WEST: When I say, “Don’t try to be someone else,” and when you recommended listening to a lot of other things, that’s great, but don’t try to emulate someone else’s tone or pacing. I have vocal fry, I work on my breathing. I can’t sound like Rebecca. I don’t have that pacing or timing. Be who you are, do the right thing to make it sound right, technically, but your authentic self is also what’s going to elevate something. 

CARROLL: Totally. So important.

Have you ever interviewed someone you found uninteresting? If so, how did you deal with it?

CARROLL: You know, I am so grateful to be at a place in my career where I am able to say, “No thank you, I don’t want to interview that person because I’m not interested in them.” I’d say when I was a producer on a talk show, an interview show, and I was assigned a subject who was a white, corporate person, and I had like four questions, and I relied heavily on the prep. You do prep for an interview. Depending upon the platform, you have a team, or you do the prep yourself. The “prep” is like, “okay, hit these”— as Abby had said earlier— “hit this, this, and this.” You know, ungratifying for me, but if that’s the situation you’re in and your editor or your producer says, “make sure you hit this, this, and this,” and you’re not interested, genuinely, in that person, then you have to rely on the prep. But I don’t recommend it. I recommend passing on the assignment. Or suggesting somebody else!

WEST: Yes, when you have agency to pass on that and recommend and elevate someone else’s ship, do that. I’ve been on visits, and had to spend days talking to people on sets and have had a couple of not great people who are, you know, either very full of themselves, or slightly mean, and that’s the gig as well. 

CARROLL: I was just going to say, again, and Abby pointed it out, and I agree with this, once you have agency— but you should always have agency. You should always have agency and know your value, and know your worth, know what you’re bringing. I know people need to pay rent, I know— believe me, I know that, but the more you invest in the worth of your intellect, the better position you’re in to ask for what you are— what you deserve and what you are worth. A few years ago, I moderated a panel with a crew of actors from a film about adoption, and I had a lot of criticism around the way in which the actors—the white actors—dealt with their performances. And this one white male actor was really mean! He was really mean, on stage, in front of, like, a hundred and fifty people, and I was just sort of like, “Wow, is that really the position you want to take?” Right? I mean, I’m not coming at it this way, so it’s just a matter of being in touch with yourself, being self-aware, and believing that your view and your experience– you wouldn’t be there if you didn’t want to get an answer that would further the conversation at large. 

How do you write a formal email, or just the pitch, to someone you would like to interview for your podcast when you are just starting out?

WEST: I’m going to let Rebecca really take this one, because I’ve been fortunate enough in that most of the interviews that I have gone out for I’ve had the weight of a major publication—or even a local publication—behind me. I know that it hits different with people when just my name gets in their inbox. You know, they don’t know me, I could be anyone. But you’re calling from Entertainment Weekly? Sure, let’s talk. Right? That’s a different thing. 

CARROLL: I’ve published five books of interview-based narratives, narrative-based interviews, with Black writers, Black women writers, Black men writers, prominent Black public figures, but my first book was with Black women writers. And I sent actual letters, written letters, with stamps on them, to Toni Morrison, Toni Cade Bambara, Gloria Wade-Gayles, Alice Walker… I mean, everybody who I admired. Terry McMillan. And you know, the response was obviously good enough to write a book, but I think what was most important in those cold reach outs was that I wanted them to know that I was both in seeking their wisdom and also their community and that it wasn’t just about getting this one-off interview, it was about creating a tapestry and something that would live in the hands of younger Black women and folks who would read this book and be able to take the words that they expressed about writing and Blackness and womanness and do something more and bring it to another place. I think, for me, it’s experiential. It’s the way that I like to move words around on the page, and it was about a genuine admiration. And so that doesn’t speak to every experience when you’re trying to get an interview, but I do think it’s important to hit those points of, “This is bigger than just this interview,” “I am admiring of your work,” and “I want for the things that you say to build on the language that we already have.”

This event was originally recorded on May 14th, 2021.